Sasha
hello eric, how goes thee
i hope you have found things to entertain your brain during the summer
11:43pmMe
LIke a winter breeze easily through to the marrow
I have
i have posted new videos
one is about football just for u
11:44pmSasha
hahaaha
erg.. i wish to separate myself from football
what is it about tho
11:44pmMe
its a song
complete spoof
11:45pmSasha
off of what other song
11:45pmMe
nvm
not a spoof on a song but on bfootball fans
just look at some of the top 4 videos on my wall or something and comment or something
11:47pmSasha
or something
you got it
you know i moved
i live in chicago
11:47pmMe
how many chicas in chicago?
11:48pmSasha
and our conversations (or rather, your conversations) have really interested me in philosophy, especially the classical philosophers
how many? 54 percent
11:48pmMe
haha
really, nice to hear.
im sorry if they are my conversation
11:48pmSasha
don't be
i don't think i could my words would have helped what you were saying
11:49pmMe
so who u interested in
"i could my words"
11:49pmSasha
bad grammar
aristotle
i am astonished at his scientific approach
it astounds me when i imagine the time and age
to think of matter
11:50pmMe
if u like aristotle, then u should talk to my brother in emory
he goes too far with aristotle in my opinion
the greeks were awesome i must say
but there are things aristotle made mistakes with
11:51pmSasha
how does he go too far?
and what mistakes?
11:52pmMe
My major problem is that aristotle is that he does allow for randomness or chaos
He believes everything has order and that the reason why things do the things they do is because of a telos
telos is roughly a goal
and through this argument he postulates a primeover
Primemover, a Deity for cause and effect
11:53pmSasha
i remember you telling me about telos
so.. is it that you disagree in there being a natural goal within everything?
11:54pmMe
Basically, Aristotle could not understand how something could not be intented to happen or have a prime intention
11:54pmSasha
would he believe there is a telos in a boulder
i see
11:54pmMe
Well i dont disagree that it is possible, but im saying his philosophy begs the question
He believed the planets moved around the earth out of love for the primemover
The rock falls because it wants to fall
that is its nature and nature is desire for aristotle
11:56pmSasha
awesome
11:56pmMe
Now he doesnt mean desire as in processes in the brain per se, but in a conceptual way of viewing how everything could be explained
By saying that things happen because of X Y Z does not prove that X Y or Z is real or relavent
or that a causal relationship exist
11:58pmSasha
hmm, i don't quite understand the xyz part
11:58pmMe
Basically Aristotle intended to make the world make sense in his own terms
11:58pmSasha
if things happen, isn't it real?
now that makes sense
11:58pmMe
XYZ are just place holders for anything
11:58pmSasha
and your brother follows aristotle in making the world just too neat?
with his beliefs?
11:59pmMe
Yeah, he hasaristotle weakness for design
my brother is a deist for aa designer
12:00amMe
things have to be made, they cant be unintentional without foresight
Telos can be understood as having foresight
12:00amSasha
idk if intention is too much of a human concept
12:00amMe
THeintention has many different meanings in philosophy
12:00amSasha
hmm
12:02amMe
Intentionality is for the philosophy of language a way to explain why I mean what I do with my words
Basically intention in that sense connects the sentence to the real world
Intention for Foucault meant it in a darwinian sense
Intention that were not subjective
12:05amSasha
then i think aristotle had a quite clear grasp of telos considering his time and scenario
or intention
it astounds me how creativity and logic can exist together
12:05amMe
clear grasp of something you yourself defined, is it possible?
12:06amSasha
you're right, my judgements right now are without the readings of aristotle
so its all my intention
12:06amMe
DO we know what make
12:06amSasha
oh well
what make?
quarks
12:07amMe
hehe, i think it would be interesting to question our own ideas to the point of asking do we understand ourselves
do we do we understand the language our brain speaks
12:08amSasha
that i can answer.. no
i do not understand myself
i actually felt lost this year because of the numerous elements of my life that affect me uncontrollably
12:08amMe
i tbelieve a lot of people do not understand their thoughts, they speak the language but they dont understand it
12:08amSasha
and i know they are there, yet i have yet to analyze and discover for myself
agreed
i do feel like you could lose your life trying to understand yourself tho
12:09amMe
i know there are things I am sensing because they are clear and distinct
12:09amSasha
but that does not mean it isn't worth searching
12:09amMe
THings i am thinking
12:09amSasha
haha
chemicals! spewing from your brain
12:09amMe
DO u sense thoughts like you feel tables?
12:10amSasha
i do
12:10amMe
Are u seperate from your thoughts or part of them
12:10amSasha
if anything, the thoughts are more real than tables, because i hav ethe idea of what a table feels like
hmm
i think i am a byproduct
12:10amMe
and if part of them, why claim them as your own
12:10amSasha
erg no
because i hav ea part in them
i think they are inseperable
12:11amMe
inseperable, have u ever tried
12:11amSasha
i have not
12:11amMe
to break away
12:11amSasha
to live without thoughts is to not live
12:11amMe
or so u say
a plant lives
12:11amSasha
yes, but it doesn't have thoughts
or does it...
computational thoughts
12:12amMe
cells comunicate to each other
what are thoughts but a system of processes that inform each other
anything organized in a stregic power relationship
strategic*
12:13amSasha
i agree
12:13amMe
self preservation
to telos of natural organization
12:14amSasha
i think your thoughts are in control until you realize the presence and conditoin of those thoughts, at which point then there is free will in terms of that though
which goes back to what we were saying about the thoughts you might not realize are there
but worth searching
12:14amMe
If u have know free will, then who is not free?
no*
12:15amSasha
everyone is free
12:15amMe
but if u were notr free, then would u exist?
12:15amSasha
because everyone has SOME realization of themself, no?
i don't think so
if my thoughts were not free, i would have no will over them, and i would be only my thoughs
but i suppose my thoughts would be free from myself!
12:15amMe
They could simply recognize a body of flesh and bones but it is actually their mother's body
to think yet never have a thought of oneself the christian dream
12:16amSasha
hahaha
i am god
12:16amMe
the buddhist dream in a more accurate portrayal
12:16amSasha
he is me
12:16amMe
Creating a sims game and
12:17amSasha
eric.. there is a god
stop thinking
just do, as he says
12:17amMe
How can i not, if he is the one thinking in my place
12:17amSasha
haha
12:17amMe
I met some pentacostals of the predestination branch
12:18amSasha
oh ya
12:18amMe
Who thinks but the one who is in control
12:18amSasha
true, thank god for humanist religion!
12:18amMe
but the christian adopted humanism too but dont realize it
ignorance replaces true progress
12:19amSasha
i think religion was a very practical evolutionary tool that allowed for more moral and logical approaches, but its time has past
12:19amMe
no one knows why we care about others anymore
12:19amSasha
they don't
because we care about ourselves, right?
12:19amMe
If u didnt would u brush your teeth
12:19amSasha
if you watch a man being killed, don't you feel as if you're are being attacked?
12:20amMe
Well, if i felt that, i might run away
12:20amSasha
if i didn't what
HMM good point
12:20amMe
because the person who feels attack runs
12:21amMe
so we arent tricked into thinking we are another person, we keep our individuality (of some sorts)
12:21amSasha
is it selfish or a communal response?
no not tricked
12:22amMe
we think things, we make decisions, we have purposes to our actions (sometimes)
we have emotions and sensations
to save a person from danger is part of choosing what to do
we dont need a natural tendency to say do this or that
you want to say we are born good people or something
12:23amSasha
no no, i believe we are born noble savages
purely a byproduct of environment
12:23amMe
purely environment or some genetics
12:23amSasha
purely in the sense of an initial genetic makeup, and the rest
the rest environment, where your genetic makeup can be changed to your environment
12:24amMe
somethinThe brain has a blueprint on how to make and use its brain (that is primary knowledge)
The secondary is first experience
the color red must be experienced to be known
therefore it is secondary
12:25amSasha
do you think the blueprint can change though based on secondary experience?
nvm
12:26amMe
the blueprint explains how to modify the structure (or use the process avaible to make a learn thing
the language is a bit out of there, for no one talks about the brains blueprint in genetics like this except in the field of study
12:28amMe
I will concede that the environment develops our moral responses
12:28amSasha
is your major in college decided eric?
indeed
hmm
there is no moral fabric in our genetics?
what about the natural response of animals to protect their own species
12:28amMe
But I dont believe learn ways our at all moral or justified just because of our environment
12:29amSasha
if a rat warns another rat of a cat, is it moral?
12:29amMe
Matters
Does it matter?
If the rat lives or dies
Or if the cat is eaten by the the rat
because of the twists of fate and the dog eat dog world
12:30amSasha
ok, but i'm talking about if a rat consciencesly, or sub, decides to warn other rats, is it moral?
12:30amMe
are we to pacify existence to rid all suffering all struggle
why is that moral, because we dislike it, because we desire outcomes
12:31amSasha
moral being the protection of others like yourself?
12:32amMe
is not morality rigged, because it has the right to both say what is good and bad and say itself is good
So all morality is tribal
U are black, i dont look after u
Now i understand u, u are like me, join my tribe, be like white man
See my factories, work there
See my plantations work there
these are what those who have no past fortunes do in my tribe
12:33amSasha
eric, though i have enjoyed this talk, i feel we are becoming separated in ideas
12:34amMe
the system is beloved, we dare not change it
12:34amSasha
i hope to come across you someday
oh we dare
our discontent dares
12:34amMe
A system rigged to have unemployed people
To have unnecessary jobs and industries
to always put a bar in which one gets help
or not
whatever, i am mostly trying to disagree with whatever u say
see ya my friend
12:37amSasha
hahaha point taken dipshit
12:37amMe
just trying to spread the difficult material i have been reading in philosophy and social criticism
12:38amSasha
its greeted warmly, as a thought to be considered, and you a friend who's intentions are as moral and human as i can point to
good luck dude
and remember, i took part in your dance at prom
just like you expected people to lo
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